Chapter 2 1856 The Interview

Chapter 2

1856

The Interview

            "My name is Ian  Kirkt and this is Jeremiah, my grandson."

Jeremiah had preceded Kirkt, descending the large stairs from the balcony to the main floor.  Kirkt following a few steps behind his grandson, heard this older baldish man repeat this question. This older man sit at a desk half-hdden  just inside the doorway to anther room,  Both of them walked up to desk to enquire where they might breakfast.        

            The person that met them last night had mentioned they would be having breakfast before meeting for their interview. Last night, the greeter, had greeted them very cordially and ushered them to their bedroom, even offering them a pitcher of water to wash up.

            Kirk looked down at the little man behind the desk. This scranny little man not only not

returned their greetings of "good morning", but had demanded their names.

            "Kirkt--yes I remember hearing your last name before," He nodded his head in a curt greeting.  "We'll deal with you as fitting."

            After both nodded, Jeremiah stepped closer. Kirkt, out the corner of his eye, noticed a pleased expression on Jeremiah's face. They had sent their letter about their manuscript to Washington Irving's office with a good deal of expectation.

           

            Kirkt turned back again to the man behind the desk.  So this is Washington Irving, he mumbled.  Then he gave a little shrug of his shoulders. Well maybe Irving wiill help  Jeremiah publish his book--he was supposed to help budding writers-and  writers interested in Oregon Country.

            "Do you have Scottish relatives here in the East?"

   Jeremiah turned and nodded his head in his grandfather's direction. "Yes--We have--we corresponded with you--Grandpa can tell you all about this-- our family goes back to early Lachine--Fort Garry--Quebec--even the Oregon Territory."

"The Oregon Territory you say?" interjected the man across the desk. "You mean like joining the fur trader from Hudson's Bay Company?" His voice took on a cynical tone, "really getting profanely rich in the Oregon Territory."

 "Yes!" responded Jeremiah, not hearing the cynicism that the man spoke. Jeremiah interpreted the man's sharp voice and cynical words for enthusiasm.  Jeremiah agreed, "Yes! They got really really rich from the furs. That's what got me into writing.  I wanted to write my grandparent's story."  He suddenly stopped. 

The gentleman's eyes had narrowed into thin slits and his mouth had twisted into a menacing scowl. "A band of money-grabbing loyalist scum," he exclaimed!

Jeremiah's astonishment must have shown in his expression--it also left him speechless.  Ian Kirkt, now standing beside his grandson, also noticed this.                             "What's the matter?"

"Your kin are a band of loyalist robbing scum!" His voice had grown to a voice so shrill that he could barely speak.

Jeremiah, still recovering from his shock, managed to say, "you have a special interest in the Oregon Country?" Still confused about Lewis' reaction, he turned to his grandpa and spoke, saying each word slowly, "I have no idea what happened.”

            Iain Kirkt, standing behind Jeremiah, stepped forward and held up his hand. "Wait a tad here. We're not Loyalist--we're from the Oregon country--"

            "Well your name is Kirkt!" The man said this like it was his final word.

            "An' that's it? Kirk paused and looked closely at the man. "An' you're cuttin' us off wi' that'?" Kirk paused again.  "Yer name in Washington Irving--isn't it?"

            "Irving--is my name Irving?" There was a feigned surprise in his voice. "No!" My name is Tate Lewis, managing editor of the New York Ledger. I help Irving with the new writers.

            "And you don't have an interest in the Oregon Territory?" asked Jeremiah.

            "Of course, but that's years ago--the Ledger backed President Polk's 'Fifty-Four Forty or Fight' campaign too."

            "So, you backed Polk's campaign--so you say," Jeremiah paused a moment. "And

Grampa fought against the Brits in New or 'lens in 1815--wi. General Jackson." There was a long pause. " What we're saying' to you, Mr. Tate Lewis--we have family in Lachine acquainted with Mr. Irving."

            "We have a written Mr. Irving," said Ian. "An' we're here to show it to Washington Irving."  

            At that moment, like on cue, a well-dressed man opened the door, walked into the room. A thickset older man, he still carried himself well. He walked across the room. to Lewis' desk, and Lewis, suddenly awakening from his surprise, jumped to his feet and offered his chair to the new person.

            "Thank you Lewis," he said and took his seat.

             Ian Kirkt, silently watching this little drama turned to Jeremiah, and they winked at each other.

            "You probably already guessed," the newcomer said. "I'm Washington Irving. I want to talk to you in a moment, but first I need to speak to Mr. Lewis.  .

            Watching the two talk, Ian Kirkt wondered to himself, This is not good--If this gentleman's like Lewis, this is gonna be a bad beginning. Watching longer, he observed, he has a soft appearance--likely neither of them had ever used their hands in hard work... Unlike Lewis' sculptured face. Irving had more heavy features; however Kirkt observed, he's got a different spirit about him than Lewis.

Irving had come over to where Jeremiah and Ian sat. His face was lit up by a wide smile.

            Irving, in a soft voice, said. "I hope my copyreader hasn't been too direct with you." He glanced over at Lewis.  "He knows I'm very much interested in your Oregon story."Looking from Ian to Jeremiah, he paused for a moment.

            Both Jeremiah and Ian could only shrug his shoulders.

            "Yes this is 1856, but he's still fighting the Revolution." Irving paused again, watching Kirkt. "He only helps by reading the manuscripts for me. All new writers send their stuff here at Sunnyside like you did. "

            Irving shook his head. "I terribly sorry I missed you when you arrived--I still do a little work in New York, and got off  late.--I try to help as many writers from the States as I can, so I receive quite a few. My health forces me to use help where I can"  He gave a little chuckle as he said this. "That's not saying I won't read your manuscript myself--In fact, your manuscript caught my eye right away. Your old Scottish name had made a prominent place in the great Oregon migration."

            Irving pulled his chair closer.  Leaning back in his chair, he clasped his hands behind his head. "I intend to read your manuscript, but tell me a little more about the Kirkts."

            Jeremiah turned to his grandfather.  "Do you want me to do this Grandpa?"  At his grandfather's nod, Jeremiah continued. "The Kirkts came out to Oregon with one of Oregon's earliest pioneer group in 1841, the Sinclair Party--before the Oregon Trail in 1843."

            "My research revealed that this group-" Lewis paused to look down at his notes on a large tablet in his hand, and then he raised his gaze. "Yes, James Sinclair Party of 41.--crossed Canada in 1841, before Canada was Canada --Oregon being  the huge Territory rising up from.--Both England and the States claimed it, so it remained a co-occupational citizenry for  about 25 years...."

            Kirkt glancing over at Irving noticed Irving staring at him, but then Irving quickly turned to Lewis.                                                                                            

             "Well thank you, Lewis," he said. "It's good to have those historical facts." He caught Lewis eye. "Best I interview the Kirkts alone for a few minutes--then I will need you."

             Turning to the Jeremiah Kirkt, he said, "Please tell me your story". Then pausing, he turned to Ian, "No--Ian why don't you start by tell me about --about some of the early years on the frontier--the earlier experiences on the Great Plains and then Oregon you're telling the future--you mentioned in your letter about dreaming future events." "We probably didn't mention that as a kid I lived with the Teton Sioux for over five years. I was caught and I'll have to say I suffered as a slave for over a year or two."

            "That's when you begin these dreams." Jeremiah looked at his grandfather, "true?"

            Iain Kirk looked at Jeremiah with a small grin and shook his head." No--no, not at the first." said Kirk  His expression grew serious. "I was actually being taken as a captive by the war party, just after they raided the trading post that my folks ran."

            Quickly Jeremiah looked over at Irving. "Grandpa did have a dream from the Lord that saved him and the whole village."

Irving nodded and said, "the Oregon Territory has been my special interest--in fact I have had a resource person in Oregon, by the name of Bonneville.  He told me a story about an old squaw that foretold the arrival of Lewis and Clark--that fascinates me--but religion really fascinates me."

            Kirk nodded his head slowly.  "Ay--some Indians have spiritual knowledge," he said. "As matter of fact, this happened almost at the start. Well after the first year. One of the Sioux squaws told me I was a  'dleam  e-tam-a-naplopet'.  Then they all started calling me,'dleamplopet. That's a name in common jargon meaning 'Dream prophet', "he said."They still do," he added.

            Listening carefully to the conversation, Jeremiah immediately added, "The Indians are really more spiritual people then you might think.           

            "I'd like to hear more about that," interrupted Irving. "I mean your folks and their trading post."

            "I'd rather talk about that later maybe," answered Kirkt.

            Irving, still leaning forward, "Well now isn't that something. Quite an interesting exciting life," said Irving.  "Let's meet tomorrow early--we'll take more time--I've got some other things I hafta to do in New York for now. But, please, I want you to remain as my guests for as long as we need.  This sounds like  a story I would like to do--as well as help you get started. In fact I can get some things going in New York on this.  If you don't mind I would like Lewis to explore some points with you."

            He stood up and turning to Lewis, he said, his voice took on a gruff tone."I've jotted down a few more things here." He paused and looked Lewis in the eye.  "Of course you understand I consider the Kirkts as very welcome guests here, and obviously an even more valuable resource for our Oregon study."

            Facing the Kirkts, Irving spoke again, much softer, "Could you meet with Lewis sometime after lunch?"   

Later that day Lewis met with the Kirkts.  Again Lewis sat behind a desk, and looked up as the Kirkts entered the room.

            "Good afternoon gentlemen," he said, "Did you have a good lunch?" 

            Lewis' confident tone of voice had changed to sound quite friendly.

            "You know Ian, after hearing you this morning," he said, "this should make a good story--after this interview--maybe I'll buy your story to write my own book."

            Kirkt looked at Lewis, "You would? Well good, we'll maybe negotiate with you."

            Ian turned to Jeremiah. "What year did the Sinclair Party come out to Oregon?"

            "Summer of 41," Jeremiah, listening, answered instantly, as if that answer was immediate in his thoughts.  

            "Ay, I remember, Doc Tolmon invited me to travel with his party--I think they needed a hunter an' guide.  I was with the Hudson's Bay in Fort Vancouver at the time."

            "Doc Tolmon"? Lewis looked at Kirk--his eyebrows raised. "He was a medical doctor"?

Kirk chuckled, looking at Lewis. "I guess he must have had doctor training--he was the head man up north at Fort Nisqually--like Doc John McLoughlin at Fort Vancouver." 

            "Sounds like a lot of doctors?"

            Kirk nodded. "Aye, he said."Doc Whitman out by Fort Walla Walla--more than you'd think for the wild west."

.           "Did you know the Whitman's?

            "Ay. As I've said I knew both Marcus and Narcissa Whitman."Kirkt smiled."Fact is I was one of his guides in that winter in 1842."

            "You were one of his guides?" Lewis', face lit up, "That trip started the great American Migration you know!" exclaimed Lewis.

            Kirkt shrugged. "Aye, that may be--before that, only about 500 whites lived out there.  So livin' very long you knew many folks, but I know the Indian evangelist Spokane Garry an' the Spokane chief who was his father."

            Lewis raised his hand to stop Kirkt. "Yes--getting back to the story, Mr. Irving wants to know some of your early years--when your trading post was raided…Lewis  paused a moment watching Kirkt.

            Jeremiah, listening spoke, "For the early years, we've mentioned we're related to the Kirkts of Montreal--"

            "Ay Jeremiah's right about the early years, said Ian. "The Indian war party raid happened when I'm about twelve."

            "Mr. Irving mentions the raiding party--why don't we start there?"

            ."Kirkt nodded his head slowly. "The Indian part is a good story maybe, but it's a sad one.  I donna like to talk about. We explained some of this in the letter we sent--it's in the book manuscrpt"

            "I see," Lewis paused a moment, studying Kirkt."One thing I'm curious about--you write that you connected later with family again didn't you"

            "Aye--that's so," answered Kirk. "My mother and my three kid brothers survived the Indian raid that took me captive. She made it down to Saint Louis. She belongs to the Osage Tribe and that was her only hope. Miraculously--by God's timing, she met up with our Grandpa Kirkt. He had to come to St. Louis on business, He's very wealthy. He had the means to take her and the whole family back to Fort Garry. Grandpa Kirk took care of her and the family until he died." He died at the end of 1839. He paused. "His will named me as the sole beneficiary. So I determined I'd make the trip to Fort Garry to see about this.

          Like I mentioned before, goin' to Fort Garry, I traveled with Fort Nesqually's head trader Doc Tolmie, an'  out on the Fort Carlton Trail--way out in the middle of the Saskatchewan Plains-- I met my family--whom I hadn't seen in close to 40 years. They were on the the first leg of going to the Oregon Terruitfory with the Sinclair Party."

            Lewis looked at him for a moment."Did you say, 'you were the sole beneficiary of the Kirkt Fur Company'?"      

            "Aye I reckon that's so," said Ian. "Our mother had also died, and my brothers  had nothin' to hold 'em in Red River. That I would meet them out on the Saskatcwan Plains-after all these years, might appear a leeetle bit unusual.'

          "I'm tempted to ask what you intend to do with your new fortune," responded Lewis, "but you've already had a very full life. Did we miss anything in your youth?" 

          Ian shrugged his shoulders. "Did I mention that as a kid I lived with the Teton Sioux for over five years. I was caught and I'll have to say I suffered as a slave for over a year or two."

            "That's when you begin these dreams." Jeremiah looked at his grandfather, "true?"

            Iain Kirk looked at Jeremiah with a small grin and shook his head." No--no, not at the first."said Kirk  His expression grew serious. "I was actually being taken as a captive by the war party, just after they raided the trading post that my folks ran."

            "Now that's amazing," said Lewis, shaking his head. "That's before the 1800s--it must have been wilderness."

            Lewis studied the notes Irving had left. "When you connected with the family later--right?  Tell about that."

            "Ay," said Kirkt. "That's much later--they came out with the Sinclair party in 1842--about thirty years later." He stroked his beard as he considered his answer. "I had been living in the Oregon Territory--it was still a territory---part English an' part American, an', as I said, in 1840, I got word my Grandpa Kirkt had died an' I was heir to the Kirkt Fur Business--he had a fortune in money."

            "I think we've covered that already," said Lewis. "So as fate determined that your life of hard knocks deserved some reward and you inherited his fortune?"

            Kirk shook his head. "No I don't credit fate did anything, as you said. I don't believe my Grandpa's fortune--which is mor'n I can spend--comes to me from my life .             Lewis studied Ian for a moment and then shrugged saying "okay." The looking down he studied the notes Irving had left. "Well okay", he said, "there's a few more points, and Mr. Irving will begin his interview tomorrow." He paused a moment, and then said, "Mr. Irving seems to be quite a bit interested in your time with the Indians."

            "Aye," answered Kirk. "He did appear that way." A long silence followed with Kirk confronting Lewis silently until Lewis looked down at his notes again.

            When Lewis looked up again, he smiled, "we can begin this tomorrow with Mr. Irving."

            Kirkt shrugged and said, "okay--sorry I don't wanta go into my early years."

            The next morning they had all seated themselves

            "okay-- you folks want the story well here it is. It my life really started  almost 60 years ago."

            Grandpa why don't you tell him 'bout your drowning and near death experience with the Indians."

            Irving looked at Ian. "Near-death experience? Irving looked from Jeremiah to Ian. "Whatta you mean by that?"

            Ian didn't say anything for a moment, and then he shrugged.  "That was a little over ten years ago."

            "Well go on--I'd like to hear the story."        

            "It's a long story," responded Ian. "It only happened once. Are you sure you want to go into this?" He looked over at Irving and Lewis.

            "Yes, said Irving. "This sounds interesting."

            "I may be able to add things," said Lewis. "I've an extensive research collection on early Oregon." 

            "Okay. This happened in 1842  on Missionary Marcus Whitman's and Asa Lovejoy trip east.when I was guiding them part way. In those years crossing the Rockies in the winter was suicidal, but Whitman had set it in his mind that he had to get to the East Coast that winter.Lovejoy had just crossed from the East so I'm not sure why he's goin' east. When I joined the party Whitman had already hired another guide and tried to cross over the Rockies through the Southpass, but the snow had turned him back--it had  piled up to over 20 feet.

            When I told him I had lived in Taos, Mexico and had been over the Santa Fe Trail in the winter, he wanted me to guide the party south to Taos and the party could cross over on the Santaa Fe Trail."

            Kirk hunched up his shoulders and rolled his eyes to show his doubts..

            Both Irving and Lewis gave a little laugh, but then Lewis' face took on a serious expression. "Well what's wrong with that?"

            "Right," Irving agreed. "You helped your friend on the fort."

            "Aye, but I didn't wanta recross the mountains. Also I know Moses Harris--he's a good man--a good guide and he had given up trying. I know in the winter even traveling south along the west slopes of the Rockies may be even more dangerous. We'd hafta cross two or three major rivers. Some may be frozen over, but I know the Green River many times freezes to the center, but due to it's fast waters the rivercenter doesn't freeze and is open."

            Irving slowly nodded. "I see your problem.  What did you do?"     

Ian shrugged his shoulders. "I agreed to guide them, but I told 'em if we got to the Green and it was open in the center--I'd turn back."

Irving nodded "Yes that's the sensible thing--smart thing. So what did you do?"

"Crossed the Green." Ian gave a little chuckle. "Whitman got there ahead of me and had already crossed.  He musta been a day ahead of me. So what else could I do?"

"And that's when when you had this death experience?"

Ian nodded his head slowly. "Ay, that's when I should have died."

Irving was silent for a few minutes, studying Ian/ Then he asked, "how old are you Ian?" Before Ian answered, Irving commented, "you really had quite a life. I'm getting more and more facinated by your life. I've looked for a great adventure story of the West for a long time." Irving paused a moment for Ian to absorb this idea. "What do you think? I would like to hear more about your life."

Ian looked over at his grandson. "We dinna come here to do that--whata you think Jeremiah?"

Before Jeremiah could respond Irving broke in with a reassuring wword. "Of course, and we can do your grandson's writing too--in fact maybe we could colaberate. Linking our names would give your grandson quite a boost in a writing career."

Ian still didn't answer, but finally looked across at Irving as if he had decided. Jeremiah still never spoke.

"This would help Jeremiah," said Irving. "Both of you would have your lodgings and meals here at Sunnyside."

 "Aye--if you're willin' to do all that, I'm willin' too," responded Ian. "You agree Jeremiah?"

"Sure--that sounds like a good deal to me,: said Jeremiah.

            That evening and night Ian's thoughts went over his past. As he began refreshing his mind, memories began coming up of things he dreaded thinking about.  Scenes he witnessed 60 years earlier--at first warm familiar scenes returned .Ian Kirkt virtually stepped back in time, 60 years

  

          Ian Kirkt's mind had already rehearsted his early part of his life--in fact he had lived with scenes much of his life.   Living the years with the Sioux had helped redirect if not putting much of a very sorrowful memory away. As he told his story, his mind immediately went back to the interesting part of his life.